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	<title>Comments on: Retroviral vectors in gene therapy - is it the end of the road?</title>
	<link>http://hematopoiesis.info/2008/04/03/retroviral-vectors-in-gene-therapy-is-it-the-end-of-the-road/</link>
	<description>Blood Stem Cell &#38; Lineages</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2009 10:43:35 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Alex</title>
		<link>http://hematopoiesis.info/2008/04/03/retroviral-vectors-in-gene-therapy-is-it-the-end-of-the-road/#comment-702</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 May 2008 16:02:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://hematopoiesis.info/2008/04/03/retroviral-vectors-in-gene-therapy-is-it-the-end-of-the-road/#comment-702</guid>
		<description>Results of a new study (=gene therapy safety assay) from U California Davis published in &lt;a href="http://www.nature.com/mt/journal/vaop/ncurrent/abs/mt200893a.html" rel="nofollow"&gt;Molecular Therapy&lt;/a&gt; showed that retroviral HSC gene/cell therapy is absolutely safe in mice model.
&lt;blockquote&gt;
Serious adverse events in some human gene therapy clinical trials have raised safety concerns when retroviral or lentiviral vectors are used for gene transfer. We evaluated the potential for generating replication-competent retrovirus (RCR) and assessed the risk of occurrence of adverse events in an in vivo system. Human hematopoietic stem and progenitor cells (HSCs) and mesenchymal stem cells (MSCs) transduced with two different Moloney murine leukemia virus (MoMuLV)-based vectors were cotransplanted into a total of &lt;strong&gt; 481 immune-deficient mice&lt;/strong&gt;  (that are unable to reject cells that become transformed), and the animals were monitored for &lt;strong&gt; 18 months&lt;/strong&gt; . Animals with any signs of illness were immediately killed, autopsied, and subjected to a range of biosafety studies. &lt;strong&gt; There was no detectable evidence of insertional mutagenesis leading to human leukemias or solid tumors in the 18 months during which the animals were studied&lt;/strong&gt; . In 117 serum samples analyzed by vector rescue assay there was no detectable RCR. An additional 149 mice received HSCs transduced with lentiviral vectors, and were followed for 2–6 months. No vector-associated adverse events were observed, and none of the mice had detectable human immunodeficiency virus (HIV) p24 antigen in their sera. Our in vivo system, therefore, helps to provide an assessment of the risks involved when retroviral or lentiviral vectors are considered for use in clinical gene therapy applications.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

For me it's shows again how results of preclinical testing could be different between species and animal models. Again, even so, we never know what we will get in human when we will start a clinical trial.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Results of a new study (=gene therapy safety assay) from U California Davis published in <a href="http://www.nature.com/mt/journal/vaop/ncurrent/abs/mt200893a.html" rel="nofollow">Molecular Therapy</a> showed that retroviral HSC gene/cell therapy is absolutely safe in mice model.</p>
<blockquote><p>
Serious adverse events in some human gene therapy clinical trials have raised safety concerns when retroviral or lentiviral vectors are used for gene transfer. We evaluated the potential for generating replication-competent retrovirus (RCR) and assessed the risk of occurrence of adverse events in an in vivo system. Human hematopoietic stem and progenitor cells (HSCs) and mesenchymal stem cells (MSCs) transduced with two different Moloney murine leukemia virus (MoMuLV)-based vectors were cotransplanted into a total of <strong> 481 immune-deficient mice</strong>  (that are unable to reject cells that become transformed), and the animals were monitored for <strong> 18 months</strong> . Animals with any signs of illness were immediately killed, autopsied, and subjected to a range of biosafety studies. <strong> There was no detectable evidence of insertional mutagenesis leading to human leukemias or solid tumors in the 18 months during which the animals were studied</strong> . In 117 serum samples analyzed by vector rescue assay there was no detectable RCR. An additional 149 mice received HSCs transduced with lentiviral vectors, and were followed for 2–6 months. No vector-associated adverse events were observed, and none of the mice had detectable human immunodeficiency virus (HIV) p24 antigen in their sera. Our in vivo system, therefore, helps to provide an assessment of the risks involved when retroviral or lentiviral vectors are considered for use in clinical gene therapy applications.
</p></blockquote>
<p>For me it&#8217;s shows again how results of preclinical testing could be different between species and animal models. Again, even so, we never know what we will get in human when we will start a clinical trial.</p>
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		<title>By: Alex</title>
		<link>http://hematopoiesis.info/2008/04/03/retroviral-vectors-in-gene-therapy-is-it-the-end-of-the-road/#comment-244</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Apr 2008 05:54:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://hematopoiesis.info/2008/04/03/retroviral-vectors-in-gene-therapy-is-it-the-end-of-the-road/#comment-244</guid>
		<description>to sergey -
ok, only viral delivery, so why trials with retroviruses were permitted? why not adeno- or AAV?
If gene therapy so risky why don't we switch to hematopoietic cell transplantation for treatment of mono-gene defect diseases, at least associate with abnormal hematopoiesis.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>to sergey -<br />
ok, only viral delivery, so why trials with retroviruses were permitted? why not adeno- or AAV?<br />
If gene therapy so risky why don&#8217;t we switch to hematopoietic cell transplantation for treatment of mono-gene defect diseases, at least associate with abnormal hematopoiesis.</p>
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		<title>By: sergey</title>
		<link>http://hematopoiesis.info/2008/04/03/retroviral-vectors-in-gene-therapy-is-it-the-end-of-the-road/#comment-242</link>
		<dc:creator>sergey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Apr 2008 05:31:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://hematopoiesis.info/2008/04/03/retroviral-vectors-in-gene-therapy-is-it-the-end-of-the-road/#comment-242</guid>
		<description>Alex, It 's well known about retovirus adverse effects. That it may cause expression of protooncogenes in hematopoietic cells including stem. It was also known that HOXb4 could expand hematopoietic cells including stem and as an evident consequence including the one with protooncogene(s)induced. It s logically, well these guys got money for big animals, not bad, but nothing really exciting. As for the control somewhat called MGMT which frankly I do not know and which perhaps doesn't affect nothing including cell expansion in a small group did nothing. Great!!! It s real success of these guys, use nonsense get nothing!! Reliable but stupid science. But... money back guarantee
Currently only viral delivery of the TRANSGENE is efficient, doesn't matter floxed or hoxed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alex, It &#8217;s well known about retovirus adverse effects. That it may cause expression of protooncogenes in hematopoietic cells including stem. It was also known that HOXb4 could expand hematopoietic cells including stem and as an evident consequence including the one with protooncogene(s)induced. It s logically, well these guys got money for big animals, not bad, but nothing really exciting. As for the control somewhat called MGMT which frankly I do not know and which perhaps doesn&#8217;t affect nothing including cell expansion in a small group did nothing. Great!!! It s real success of these guys, use nonsense get nothing!! Reliable but stupid science. But&#8230; money back guarantee<br />
Currently only viral delivery of the TRANSGENE is efficient, doesn&#8217;t matter floxed or hoxed.</p>
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		<title>By: Alex</title>
		<link>http://hematopoiesis.info/2008/04/03/retroviral-vectors-in-gene-therapy-is-it-the-end-of-the-road/#comment-241</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Apr 2008 05:13:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://hematopoiesis.info/2008/04/03/retroviral-vectors-in-gene-therapy-is-it-the-end-of-the-road/#comment-241</guid>
		<description>I just don't understand how those trials got approval in France and UK? If specialists know that retrovirus specifically integrate into genome near the oncogenes, what lead to their activation and subsequently to cancer. It is very well known, Sergey is right, so why?
Now &lt;a href="http://blogs.nature.com/reports/theniche/2008/04/overview_of_fda_meeting_on_emb.html" rel="nofollow"&gt; FDA is kind of scared&lt;/a&gt; of pushing forward embryonic stem cell therapy, could be the same story. 
&lt;blockquote&gt;
Several years ago, patient deaths in gene therapy trials caused the FDA to halt all such trials under its jurisdiction, another consultant told me, and that field has never recovered.&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just don&#8217;t understand how those trials got approval in France and UK? If specialists know that retrovirus specifically integrate into genome near the oncogenes, what lead to their activation and subsequently to cancer. It is very well known, Sergey is right, so why?<br />
Now <a href="http://blogs.nature.com/reports/theniche/2008/04/overview_of_fda_meeting_on_emb.html" rel="nofollow"> FDA is kind of scared</a> of pushing forward embryonic stem cell therapy, could be the same story. </p>
<blockquote><p>
Several years ago, patient deaths in gene therapy trials caused the FDA to halt all such trials under its jurisdiction, another consultant told me, and that field has never recovered.</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: Alex</title>
		<link>http://hematopoiesis.info/2008/04/03/retroviral-vectors-in-gene-therapy-is-it-the-end-of-the-road/#comment-233</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Apr 2008 05:44:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://hematopoiesis.info/2008/04/03/retroviral-vectors-in-gene-therapy-is-it-the-end-of-the-road/#comment-233</guid>
		<description>to sergey - 
doesn't regulation organization's decision to start phase I in human based on preclinical data?
I'd agree with thesis about mouse or large animal models - doesn't really matter, because we never know what we will get in human after start the trial.
Why they are (virus + expansion agent) 2 bad things? Integration of gene of interest is good and expansion of HSC is good - that's what we want! Problem is overlapping and became too much of everything. So we got a bad thing as a result.

Few protocols in parallel - good approach:
non-viral gene delivery?
other HSC expander?
small molecules?
going to read &lt;a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18393833?ordinalpos=33&#038;itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum" rel="nofollow"&gt; this &lt;/a&gt;

I don't know about others but I learned a few things from this work,
for example I wouldn't try to use HOXB4 as an therapeutic agent in human</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>to sergey -<br />
doesn&#8217;t regulation organization&#8217;s decision to start phase I in human based on preclinical data?<br />
I&#8217;d agree with thesis about mouse or large animal models - doesn&#8217;t really matter, because we never know what we will get in human after start the trial.<br />
Why they are (virus + expansion agent) 2 bad things? Integration of gene of interest is good and expansion of HSC is good - that&#8217;s what we want! Problem is overlapping and became too much of everything. So we got a bad thing as a result.</p>
<p>Few protocols in parallel - good approach:<br />
non-viral gene delivery?<br />
other HSC expander?<br />
small molecules?<br />
going to read <a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18393833?ordinalpos=33&#038;itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum" rel="nofollow"> this </a></p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know about others but I learned a few things from this work,<br />
for example I wouldn&#8217;t try to use HOXB4 as an therapeutic agent in human</p>
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		<title>By: Jae-Won Shin</title>
		<link>http://hematopoiesis.info/2008/04/03/retroviral-vectors-in-gene-therapy-is-it-the-end-of-the-road/#comment-224</link>
		<dc:creator>Jae-Won Shin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Apr 2008 15:39:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://hematopoiesis.info/2008/04/03/retroviral-vectors-in-gene-therapy-is-it-the-end-of-the-road/#comment-224</guid>
		<description>Good article and comments.. the major question is what now? so what? To me, one solution of this issue is to do things in parallel. This is especially important in therapeutics. Rather than relying on just retroviral vectors, one should also consider using any available small molecules, antibodies or siRNA in parallel as a therapeutic carrier to target HOXB4.

Another solution is to use an inducible form of transgene. I don't know this so correct me if I am wrong. However, I don't seem to understand why people do not consider an inducible form of promoter when introducing a gene. For example, doxicycline inducible promoter can be used to introduce it along with a transgene of interest so that only patients who are taking doxicycline can express this transgene. If this turns out to be dangerous, patients stop taking it so that transgene is not expressed anymore. Also, transgene can be 'floxed' so that cre can be used in an emergency situation to remove transgene from the body.

If a therapeutic method is potentially dangerous, one should either ditch it, or find a way to neutralize the danger. And do something about it. Simple is that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good article and comments.. the major question is what now? so what? To me, one solution of this issue is to do things in parallel. This is especially important in therapeutics. Rather than relying on just retroviral vectors, one should also consider using any available small molecules, antibodies or siRNA in parallel as a therapeutic carrier to target HOXB4.</p>
<p>Another solution is to use an inducible form of transgene. I don&#8217;t know this so correct me if I am wrong. However, I don&#8217;t seem to understand why people do not consider an inducible form of promoter when introducing a gene. For example, doxicycline inducible promoter can be used to introduce it along with a transgene of interest so that only patients who are taking doxicycline can express this transgene. If this turns out to be dangerous, patients stop taking it so that transgene is not expressed anymore. Also, transgene can be &#8216;floxed&#8217; so that cre can be used in an emergency situation to remove transgene from the body.</p>
<p>If a therapeutic method is potentially dangerous, one should either ditch it, or find a way to neutralize the danger. And do something about it. Simple is that.</p>
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		<title>By: sergey</title>
		<link>http://hematopoiesis.info/2008/04/03/retroviral-vectors-in-gene-therapy-is-it-the-end-of-the-road/#comment-217</link>
		<dc:creator>sergey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Apr 2008 07:55:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://hematopoiesis.info/2008/04/03/retroviral-vectors-in-gene-therapy-is-it-the-end-of-the-road/#comment-217</guid>
		<description>No problems, I just didn't get a mess. 2 bad things together were supposed to neutralise each other? What was initial idea?  Have you read 5 and 15? me not. Did those guys before they start? doubt. Large animal model? Bullshit, even with large you can be fine but fail on humans and vice versa. It's not a point, not an idea, not even a prove. Regulations are working that 'sit nothing scientific to write about. Bullshit. 
Nevermind.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No problems, I just didn&#8217;t get a mess. 2 bad things together were supposed to neutralise each other? What was initial idea?  Have you read 5 and 15? me not. Did those guys before they start? doubt. Large animal model? Bullshit, even with large you can be fine but fail on humans and vice versa. It&#8217;s not a point, not an idea, not even a prove. Regulations are working that &#8217;sit nothing scientific to write about. Bullshit.<br />
Nevermind.</p>
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		<title>By: Alex</title>
		<link>http://hematopoiesis.info/2008/04/03/retroviral-vectors-in-gene-therapy-is-it-the-end-of-the-road/#comment-216</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Apr 2008 05:46:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://hematopoiesis.info/2008/04/03/retroviral-vectors-in-gene-therapy-is-it-the-end-of-the-road/#comment-216</guid>
		<description>to sergey -
HOXB4 - very nice HSC expansion agent, yes, but it was unknown that it can cause leukemia. Even together with retrovirus, leukemia came up, the role of HOXB4 is prior and catalytic. 

so conclusion 1: HOXB4 is not that safe what was considered before

Quote 1: 
&lt;blockquote&gt;It has been demonstrated that high-level HOXB4 expression, achieved with retroviral (5) or adenoviral (15) vectors in human CD34+ cells, perturbed the myeloid differentiation program both in vitro (5, 15) an in vivo (5) without frank leukemia.&lt;/blockquote&gt; 

so = controversy 1

conclusion 2:
&lt;blockquote&gt;This study underscores the importance of large animal models in further development of gene and other novel HSPC-directed therapies.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Even we got to know about adverse effect of retrovirus-based gene therapy from human trials (unfortunately), this work has a great impact to the gene/cell therapy field.

It was long-term work and done during last 3 years.
I'd definitely allow to publish this in the journal of JCI level.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>to sergey -<br />
HOXB4 - very nice HSC expansion agent, yes, but it was unknown that it can cause leukemia. Even together with retrovirus, leukemia came up, the role of HOXB4 is prior and catalytic. </p>
<p>so conclusion 1: HOXB4 is not that safe what was considered before</p>
<p>Quote 1: </p>
<blockquote><p>It has been demonstrated that high-level HOXB4 expression, achieved with retroviral (5) or adenoviral (15) vectors in human CD34+ cells, perturbed the myeloid differentiation program both in vitro (5, 15) an in vivo (5) without frank leukemia.</p></blockquote>
<p>so = controversy 1</p>
<p>conclusion 2:</p>
<blockquote><p>This study underscores the importance of large animal models in further development of gene and other novel HSPC-directed therapies.</p></blockquote>
<p>Even we got to know about adverse effect of retrovirus-based gene therapy from human trials (unfortunately), this work has a great impact to the gene/cell therapy field.</p>
<p>It was long-term work and done during last 3 years.<br />
I&#8217;d definitely allow to publish this in the journal of JCI level.</p>
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		<title>By: sergey</title>
		<link>http://hematopoiesis.info/2008/04/03/retroviral-vectors-in-gene-therapy-is-it-the-end-of-the-road/#comment-209</link>
		<dc:creator>sergey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Apr 2008 07:37:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://hematopoiesis.info/2008/04/03/retroviral-vectors-in-gene-therapy-is-it-the-end-of-the-road/#comment-209</guid>
		<description>Didn't get the message. 
1. Retrovirus caused leukemia after GT to blood cells - it's known. 2. Retrovirus caused leukemia because of a huge viral dosage- it's also known from publication and since Paracelsius times: Poison is just a question of dose 3. HOXB4 nicely expands HSPCs including those with retrovirally induced oncogene expression - again was known.
Are they crazy those guys that mixed poison and enhancer and was waiting for Lord to make them wise? 
Chickenshit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Didn&#8217;t get the message.<br />
1. Retrovirus caused leukemia after GT to blood cells - it&#8217;s known. 2. Retrovirus caused leukemia because of a huge viral dosage- it&#8217;s also known from publication and since Paracelsius times: Poison is just a question of dose 3. HOXB4 nicely expands HSPCs including those with retrovirally induced oncogene expression - again was known.<br />
Are they crazy those guys that mixed poison and enhancer and was waiting for Lord to make them wise?<br />
Chickenshit.</p>
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		<title>By: Alex</title>
		<link>http://hematopoiesis.info/2008/04/03/retroviral-vectors-in-gene-therapy-is-it-the-end-of-the-road/#comment-192</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Apr 2008 16:18:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://hematopoiesis.info/2008/04/03/retroviral-vectors-in-gene-therapy-is-it-the-end-of-the-road/#comment-192</guid>
		<description>to Steppen -
it's a great opinion! love it completely :)))
more popular and in indie- style compared with mine, it's so easy to read. I agree with your opinion.

Actually, if you look at back to history of clinical trials, it's a usual thing when after start of trials (which have a rational - excellent preclinical data and FDA approval), adverse effects come up later. 
That's what we see now in gene therapy and in cell (stem cell) therapy as well. 

But this is a thing about trials: we don't know how it's will going in human! This is experiment, even after FDA approval and safety tests.

Other side of coin - desperation of patients, who will sign of participation list agreement in any trial, because they have no choice (only experimantal new treatment) and rush of researchers and clinicians in the same time.

I'd agree with Cynthia Dunbar, that frequently we are too eager to jump to clinic. We have to be more careful about new methods. Translation to clinic is always hard.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>to Steppen -<br />
it&#8217;s a great opinion! love it completely :)))<br />
more popular and in indie- style compared with mine, it&#8217;s so easy to read. I agree with your opinion.</p>
<p>Actually, if you look at back to history of clinical trials, it&#8217;s a usual thing when after start of trials (which have a rational - excellent preclinical data and FDA approval), adverse effects come up later.<br />
That&#8217;s what we see now in gene therapy and in cell (stem cell) therapy as well. </p>
<p>But this is a thing about trials: we don&#8217;t know how it&#8217;s will going in human! This is experiment, even after FDA approval and safety tests.</p>
<p>Other side of coin - desperation of patients, who will sign of participation list agreement in any trial, because they have no choice (only experimantal new treatment) and rush of researchers and clinicians in the same time.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d agree with Cynthia Dunbar, that frequently we are too eager to jump to clinic. We have to be more careful about new methods. Translation to clinic is always hard.</p>
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